Whining

Date: Apr 8, 2006

Whining

Date: Apr 9, 2006

I agree, over half of my comments are based on the quality of my recording. I know my songs sound rough. They're recorded on a cheap tascam 4 track. I just wish people would look more at the song itself rather than the production.

Date: Apr 9, 2006

i agree also ... the point of the site is not to pick winners who already have access to professional recording equipment. i think the judges are looking at that too much also ... the point, I THOUGHT, of the site was to give amateurs a chance to get their music out there and listened to!!!

Date: Apr 9, 2006

Of course the judges SHOULD be giving amateurs more of a shot. But who can resist a glamorous professional package in place of some shoddy 4-track recording? (I'm not condoning it, I'm just saying)

I've gotten some crappy feedback too; the problem is that no one, to my knowledge, is a professional music critic, so not everyone has a solid grasp on what constructive criticism is. That said, you've got to take what you get and, even if you think they're out of their minds, try to imagine why on Earth they'd say that. The key is to be able to objectively look at what you've created, which is really difficult because we usually unconditionally love what we create. But without any objectivity, you can't ever improve your craft; because, like it or not, occasionally people who criticize have a point.

Sometimes it's hard not to take that stuff personally, but you'll get eaten alive in this industry if you don't have a thick skin about it.

Date: Apr 9, 2006

I agree to. I put a blues song on the other day and I have got more negative comments than any thing else. I do my recording on my conputer. I love the software that I am using. But I am not real happy with the sound I get. Some time its better than others. But I really think that the negative junk is coming from people hopeing to discourage as much of the competition as they can.

Date: Apr 10, 2006

When i posted my first tune, I kind of wished I had a place to make 'Notes from the Song Writer" That way people could listen with certain things in mind.

But later I realized how beneficial this whole Artist Weekly set-up is. You click play and have to listen without seeing any feedback or guidance from anyone or anything. You just listen and start from there. So I like that. I have to listen and understand what I'm hearing and decide for myself if I like it or what I think needs improving.

BUT, I do kind of agree with the thread starter that most of the feedback is not too helpful. Even if it's a 'Nice job." or 'Sounds beautiful." or something hurtful.

I did suggest to the support staff to maybe have more of a fill-in-the-bubbles kind of critique rather than a blank page. But, could that be specific enough? Will that help us to be better critics? Maybe...

I guess in the end since we don't have a 'Notes from the Song Writer" before listening to the music, our best bet would be to bring convincing sounding demos here. And that means finding good singers for the songs, finding someone to play the guitar part, or asking someone with equipment if they could put a simple string line down that you hear in your head.

ALL of this treatment to our demos is to our credit here and elsewhere, all the time.

If we've solely come for constructive criticism in spite of how unfinished our demo is, then we can pay the $10 and get feedback from the pros here and just ignore the feedback from the other users.

This is a good thread. I'm sure this will help manifest something more helpful for all here.

What are other ways that feedback can be left and have it be constructive for the song writer who's really wanting help? Any ideas? Do the flames really help anyone?

Date: Apr 10, 2006

We considered a "fill in the blanks" style for the comments, but the decision was made to just leave it wide open, and I am convinced that is the best way to do it. The forums will give people a chance to get more in-depth, but the comments on the player are all about gut reactions. I find that I will sometimes leave a brief feedback for a song, then go back and listen a few more times and leave a deeper assessment. For some songs, I'm just not inspired enough to say any more than, "good try."

Also, don't be so quick to dismiss the "AWESOME!!" comments. While not very constructive, they are valuable in the fact that they come, not from your mom or girlfriend, but from totally anon listeners who owe you nothing. Sometimes when you write a song, you have one idea in your head, but what others hear is completely different. The "rock opera" thing may not be a great comment, but it tells you that you hit the mark you were aiming for.

Annonymity is another feature throughout artistweekly that is intentional (have you ever seen a forum where you don't log in??!!). If bob listens to joe's terrible song and gives it a deservedly bad review, I don't want joe to trash bob's song out of spite. Honesty is something that is sorely lacking in the songwriting community because nobody wants to offend . Don't get me wrong, I LIKE that songwriters are friendly and helpful, but meanwhile, the industry folks who actually write the checks make simon cowell look like a kitten. Do you want the truth from your peers now so you can really fix things, or would you rather hear it from the uber-simon's later and have your dreams crushed once and for all.

As far as the production goes, check out the winner's page (http://www.artistweekly.com/weeklywinners.jsp ) and you will hear production that ranges from radio-ready to god awful. Listen to Adam Middleton who placed 2nd twice and tell me that production matters. The only thing keeping him from first place was not the recording quality, but the unfinished quality of his songs. On the other hand, consider this: A musician who has honed his craft, written for years, and is deadly serious about what he creates is more likely to take more time and spend more money on recording. Therefore, better songs typically have better production. You can still find some rough recordings by inexperienced artists and hear greatness, but you are far more likely to hear good music out of a seasoned veteran, who will almost certainly have good production.

That said, I'm sure there are better ways to do a lot of what we do on this site, and with everybody's insight we'll keep tweaking till we get it right.

BTW: Charlie -- I'm not really refering to you specifically (except when I used the "rock opera" example). I'm talking about general issues that all surfaced before as we were developing the concept for this site, and I think it is important that everyone is on the same page.

B.Callahan

Date: Apr 10, 2006

I must say that even though I still understand the first question ask in this forum ( Whining ) I strongly agree with BC, In fackt I kinda fill bad about saying that people was leving junk for comments.

Date: Apr 10, 2006

Those of us involved in creating and running the site are concerned about the junk, too, but it's hard to make people do what you want. I'd love to see Steve Hanlon style timestamped comments on every song, as well as less importance placed on the production.

Having said that, though, we want this to be an open forum for people to say what they want, and we don't want to get into the habit of Big Brothering the comments so only what we deem is "acceptable" shows up.

Just remember this site is for you, the songwriter, and if there is something that will make it better let us know. For instance, the idea about having a form to fill out with specific sections for specific things in a song was discussed, but we thought it would add a lot of complexity and a loss of overall comments. The "songwriter's notes" type of thing is real a popular idea around here - I'm not promising anything on any specific timetable, but we think it's a great idea.

Date: Apr 13, 2006

I was about to abandon ArtistWeekly until the forums started. Now I think there is enough flexibility to make things work. We need to creatively make connections between and with the forums and the comments. So, for example, I will post a new song next week and I will start by making a fairly long introduction to the song in the About The Song forum. I hope that people who are serious will leave some mark of identity in their comments and/or post longer comments on the forums. I hope that we can converse rather than just comment, and the forums have shown that that may be possible.

Charlie

Date: Apr 20, 2006

Excuse my ignorance but which songs have you posted Charlie? What artist name do you use?

Date: Apr 20, 2006

> If you'd like to slam my song (my demo), you can find it >under "Charles Hiestand" or "Bigger Than Me". Or just >slam me for being whiney. I sure would like to hear people >talking more seriously. Charlie

Read the posts before you ask, often the answer is already there, like now for instance:)

Jack

Date: Apr 30, 2006

OK, back to some good old fashion whining. Less than a third of the people leaving ratings left comments. On "My Purpose" the few comments I've received have been quite positive and very constructive. Yet ratings give it a 2 and a half. OK, fine, but tell me why, folks. I mean, I could tell you why, but that isn't the same thing.

I guess I would like to find a way to encourage more people to leave comments after they make a rating.

Charlie

Date: Apr 30, 2006

I don't know how accurate the flames can really be. I mean, I was one of the people who left a comment for you, and I really did like your song; but the way it affected me wasn't "hot" or "smoking." Unfortunately, it goes from there to "warm," which isn't fair either, but what else can you do?? Those labels are tailor-made for radio-friendly songs, something I think we can all agree doesn't really fit in this instance.

The thing is, people who rate the songs but don't leave comments are useless, essentially. You're right that if someone gives you a "cold" rating, they should probably tell you why. But if they don't, who cares? It's not like the flames tell you anything really useful, like what about the song could be better; on the other hand, the comments do. So... pay more attention to the comments, and don't freak out about the flames. They're too easily abused.

Date: Apr 30, 2006

Yea, what she said.

I use to run a little website back in 1996ish, the site used to get 1000s of page views a month (not to be confused with 'hits') and our email list reached 1600 subscribers. I still often thought I was the only person on the web. Visitors came for the information or how it could enhance whatever it was that they were looking to do.

It was "the hardest" thing to produce the weekly newsletter because no one had anything to say, or when they did, it was "yea me too!"

Fear wasn't it, they just didn't have anything pertinate to say that would add to in any way.

When someone spoke up, it was usually well tailored to a specific idea that was useable information and then the sleepers would raise thier collective head and say "yea, me too!"

So like AS said, just pay attention to what they "do" say, and remember that it is, after all, only thier opinion.

Now my opinion on the other hand...

Jack

Date: Apr 30, 2006

Another thing we have coming to the site (in the future - it's down on the list) is a slider control to rate the songs, so there will be at least ten times more specific ratings you can give a song.

Date: May 1, 2006

Yous is right. Pay attention to the comments, not the flames. Someone pointed out that I wasn't writing for huge commercial success, and the comments have been good. So, yeah for AW, thanks for helping me keep it real.

c.

Date: May 1, 2006

Jack wrote:

Yea, what she said. I use to run a little website back in 1996ish, the site used to get 1000s of page views a month (not to be confused with 'hits') and our email list reached 1600 subscribers. I still often thought I was the only person on the web. Visitors came for the information or how it could enhance whatever it was that they were looking to do. It was "the hardest" thing to produce the weekly newsletter because no one had anything to say, or when they did, it was "yea me too!" Fear wasn't it, they just didn't have anything pertinate to say that would add to in any way. When someone spoke up, it was usually well tailored to a specific idea that was useable information and then the sleepers would raise thier collective head and say "yea, me too!" So like AS said, just pay attention to what they "do" say, and remember that it is, after all, only thier opinion. Now my opinion on the other hand... Jack

I can't help but say, Jack, that I have yet to receive a constructive comment from you (assuming this is the same jack that signs his comments "jack") They are all sarcastic, childish, close-minded, and show that you are not very in tune to creativity. How can you tell others to listen more to what other's say, as opposed to looking at the flames?? I, personally, could do without you amateurish opinion!!

Date: May 1, 2006

It's nice that he let you know that he was leaving the amateur-ish comments. Most people don't leave any clues about who they are... makes it a lot harder to find and yell at them.

Date: May 1, 2006

and at least he has the stones to sign his - "?????" - whoever you are.......

Date: May 2, 2006

They are not "all" sarcastic, childish and close-minded. About 25% can take me hours to veil a comment like "please make it stop!"

I find us both in a tricky place. You have not recieved a constructive comment and I don't know who you are and you could do without my amateurish opine.

Where to go ????...? Hell I'll make it easy for ya boss. You listen to my one silly little tune "Sometimes she lives" (by John (Jack) O'Brien) and just rip it up. Let me know where the rhymes are off, because they are in places. Tell me how the harmony makes your skin crawl.

Use your own words:) But do me a favor and leave me a name so I will know who you are.

Date: May 2, 2006

I chose not to leave a name for a reason ... which is, that if you knew who I am, then you would purposefully rate my tunes badly and verbally abuse them. Sorry if I hurt your glorified ego. By the way, listened to your tunes ... as you would say ... "Please make it stop!"

Date: May 2, 2006

I don't want to break out the hose on you two, but I will mention that his song was a finalist for the Weekly Winner.

Also - let's keep in mind that we're talking about art here. There are many songs I would pay to "please make it stop" that millions of people love.

The whole idea of Artist Weekly was to have a place to put your music and discuss. The whole idea of the 'anonymous' nature of the boards is to give people the option of frankly discussing things without the fear of a counter-attack by a 'comment bomb'.

Ok, I've said my peace - carry on......

Date: May 2, 2006

Not to mention we are Waaay off topic. But I wasn't going to mention that.

Date: May 2, 2006

I don't know if we're that off-topic, Jack. It seems like "????" wants to do a lot of whining.

If you can't handle someone's opinion of your work unless it's boundless praise and enthusiasm, good luck being a musician. If you hide behind question marks because you're afraid that everyone here is as spiteful and angry as you are, you're in the wrong place. The point of this site is to offer your work to others and maybe get feedback that could help you get better; you, in turn, help others by sharing your opinions of their work with them. If you can't handle someone's opinion, and then have to rag about how much you hate them and their song, please do us all a favor and grow up. This is a positive and creative space for most of us, and your childish tantrums don't belong here.