I'm a poet and I didn't even know I was one...

Date: Apr 14, 2006

I'm a poet and I didn't even know I was one...

Date: Apr 14, 2006

Enter it (poetry) into the poetry.com on-going everyone wins contest.

Otherwise write poetry when you like and lyrics when the mood stricks ya.

I wouldn't start questioning what it is that I am doing...I did once and quit doing it all for 4 or 5 years:)

Jack

Date: Apr 21, 2006

I'll help out.

Date: Apr 21, 2006

RE: I'm a poet and I didn't even know I was one...

Date: Apr 25, 2006

Ok. Well, here's a song I submitted to American Songwriter, even though once I wrote it out it looked a lot more ridiculous than it sounds:

Winter I'm In (Squirrel Song)

I can’t find my peace of mind
It’s not where I left it
I was afraid if I just carried on
Then I would forget it
Now the skies are clouding up
And I’m hard-pressed to feel at ease

I looked where I usually put things
It wasn’t there
I guess I must have just buried it somewhere
Now the winter winds are carving
And I will soon be starving
For a piece of my mind
To get me through this terrible time

Chorus
Why am I so forgetful
When I cannot afford it?
The warning was very clear
And I simply ignored it
Such a situation
A girl like me can never win (never win)
So I will keep on digging
Hoping to find a nut
I tell myself I’ll be ok
And I try to believe it, but
I know it’ll take more than a prayer
To get me out of this winter I’m in

The leaves are all falling
It’s down to the wire
But I will never tarry
And I will never tire
It’s got to be here somewhere
I know it’s got to be around

Now you may say I’m crazy
As you watch me try to cope
But I’m really just busy
Trying not to lose hope
So ye of little faith can beat it
‘Cause I just don’t need it
I want silence if you please
As I try to navigate the trees

Chorus

....Now, maybe it's just me being overly critical, but I read that and it sounds like garbage. But when you listen to it (www.myspace.com/carleybaer) it makes a lot more musical sense.

Date: Apr 25, 2006

Yes it did. Seems like "Hours Roll On" would have been a good send off for the American Songwriter thing but this one (Winter I'm in) may work for you too.

"Hours roll on" made me listen, that's difficult to do.

Jack

Date: Apr 26, 2006

Sorry, Jack - linking to a song doesn't work that way. It probably should, but hey - we're doing the best we can!

Date: Apr 26, 2006

Acoustic Soul, I've got lyrics like this, that when read by themselves don't totally grab me but with the tune, everything changes.

Are we good writers or good SONG writers.

Should we separate the two.

If we were poets than the words get all the weight.

But we're lucky because we have the added medium of music to color the words

The lyrics you posted seem fine enough to me.

But that leads me to another question (and this about my own lyrics).

When is "cheesy" cheesy? Is it when I tell myself it's cheesy or when someone else tells me it's cheesy?

I can't figure it out because I then start to write thinking about what other's will deem acceptable. If I want to say the line 'Child still within' my head screams 'Cheesy'

But it's exactly what i want to say at the moment in the song.

So I write 'Yelling free the Child still within'. Internal voice screams cheesy to I start to think of a different way to say it...hmmm. So I come up with 'Yelling free Youth's long lost song'

Is that cheesy? Is that cheesy TOO?

How do others get past this or deal with this kind of internal dialogue?

Date: Apr 26, 2006

820 wrote:

Sorry, Jack - linking to a song doesn't work that way. It probably should, but hey - we're doing the best we can!

Thanks 820. I just copy-n-paste my way around the web.

Jack

Date: Apr 26, 2006

That's the real question, isn't it...

I don't always feel like the songwriter is the most accurate judge of the song, because all objectivity goes right out the window. And often, we are our harshest, rather than most adoring, critics. So, in most cases I say wait for the response from a test audience to see if it's cheesy or not. But honestly... I mean, in all truth... no matter how much we love what we write, we know deep down whether or not it's totally lame.

But there is almost a schizophrenic self-conscious dialogue that goes with songwriting, I completely agree. Sometimes I take that torturous second-guessing as a sign that I need to change my idea, but if I'm absolutely hooked on it, I can't stop until I find a way to work it that doesn't make my inner critic scream with embarrassment.

...So are we good writers or songwriters? I look at people like Bob Dylan and Ani Difranco, people who are incredible wordsmiths and then add amazing music to their poetry to create a totally balanced musical experience, and it makes me surge with jealousy and admiration. There's no way I am anywhere near that level of balance, but I still strive for it, which is I guess where this whole post came from.

Anyway, thanks for the kind words about the song, Jack. And Steve, if you want my opinion, "youth's long lost song" sounds a lot better than "the child still within."

Date: Apr 27, 2006

Hee hee. Thanks, man!

I was leaning toward 'Youth's long lost song' but that damn critic arose "Oh, come on, man! If your group were called 'Fake Shakespeare' than you're right on! But otherwise, get a day job!"

Ok ok. The critic wasn't that harsh...but just giving you a taste of how stuck I can get with the words.
Actually with the confidence in the words I choose.

Date: Apr 27, 2006

Oops. I guess I should have said. "Thanks, woman!"

I'm listening to your song now. I missed your link the first time.

Date: Apr 27, 2006

AcousticSoul wrote:

Ok. Well, here's a song I submitted to American Songwriter, even though once I wrote it out it looked a lot more ridiculous than it sounds:

Winter I'm In (Squirrel Song)

I can’t find my peace of mind
It’s not where I left it
I was afraid if I just carried on
Then I would forget it
Now the skies are clouding up
And I’m hard-pressed to feel at ease

I looked where I usually put things
It wasn’t there
I guess I must have just buried it somewhere
Now the winter winds are carving
And I will soon be starving
For a piece of my mind
To get me through this terrible time

Chorus
Why am I so forgetful
When I cannot afford it?
The warning was very clear
And I simply ignored it
Such a situation
A girl like me can never win (never win)
So I will keep on digging
Hoping to find a nut
I tell myself I’ll be ok
And I try to believe it, but
I know it’ll take more than a prayer
To get me out of this winter I’m in

The leaves are all falling
It’s down to the wire
But I will never tarry
And I will never tire
It’s got to be here somewhere
I know it’s got to be around

Now you may say I’m crazy
As you watch me try to cope
But I’m really just busy
Trying not to lose hope
So ye of little faith can beat it
‘Cause I just don’t need it
I want silence if you please
As I try to navigate the trees

Chorus

....Now, maybe it's just me being overly critical, but I read that and it sounds like garbage. But when you listen to it (www.myspace.com/carleybaer) it makes a lot more musical sense.

OK. I listened to your song a couple of times. The problem with your lyrics is that your voice is far too gorgeous!!! I mean, The 1st time, I couldn't even listen to the words because i was so captivated by your silky voice (I'm married, so this is not a hit on or anything : )

Now the second tim I listened I tried real hard to focus on the words. And I definitely liked the double entendre of the whole song.

I wonder if what you're looking for is something I've been playing with recently. It's basically to kind of "Shakespeare" your phrases a little more making the words have a little more musical sound to them (easier said than done, I know)

So for example this phrase "The leaves are all falling", could you say it like "Leaves from tired tree falling "

And how about:

"But I will never tarry
And I will never tire"

"Never will I tarry
neither will I tire"

Or how about the begining

"I can’t find my peace of mind
It’s not where I left it"

to something like:

"Oh some peace mind, I should find
left it last with love long past"

Maybe this isn't the best but somehow sounds more musical to my ear.

I know there's the potential of running into the words sounding forced and perhaps not fitting the rhythm but I wonder if that would shake out of us something that would look and sound like poetry but still tell the story we want to tell.

What do you think?

Date: Apr 27, 2006

Thanks for the kind words, Steve.

You present a good idea. I think we should officially adopt "Shakespeare" as a verb for this. The problem with me is that I'm a very explicit songwriter-- not in the XXX way, but just in that I don't generally go with witty metaphors or similes or anything. For example, the song I just entered leaves very little to the imagination; this is because my Shakespearing needs a little work.

But I do think that's part of the answer, if not the answer itself. It's a theme I've noticed amongst other threads in this forum; once you crash into a wall, pick up the pieces and rearrange them a bit, and see if you can get a little further next time. It certainly is a lot harder than it seems, because we are a stubborn breed and even when all signs point to "that needs to change," we will still sometimes resist. However, I have yet to come across a point where (having swallowed my foolish pride) rearranging something didn't prove to be beneficial.

(I just want to say right now how appreciative I am of this forum. It's helped me get a clearer idea of why I do what I do, and has given me strength in knowing there are others out there who understand what it's like to speak this odd language.)

Date: Apr 27, 2006

Carley,

The other idea I can think of is to watch Star Wars and listen to Yoda.

You'll start getting the knack of displacing subject, verb and object.

Lastly, I sometimes think that taking standard sentences like 'I feel so much love' and making the object ('love') become the 'doer of the action' as in 'Love takes me, laughing at itself'

Can't quite think of a good line there...but I think you get the idea. I guess it's called personifying objects/emotions.

And don't worry that the Shakespearing thing doesnt engage immeditaely. There's NOTHING wrong with genius coming as an after thought. Everyone edits! Some of my stuff I like the most started out of impulse but went through many editions before it sounded like I wanted it to.

There was a thread here on how to get unstcuk creatively. It seems to have vanished. But I listed some things i go through to squeak out "new" ideas. And most of "my" techniques involve thinking my way out of my limitations. It's the only way I know to get my self to break habit. Some people say they'd rather "just feel it". But I say why play around with words "feel" "think"...if we want to sound different than our usual habits then we have force ourselves in situations where we do something different.

Date: May 19, 2006

Like you I started writing stories then leann rimes came along and like a brick just dropped in my lap. the lord showed me what I was ment to do. that was back in late 96. but Im bound and determined to be a full time songwriter.don't give up i haven't. it does get fusterating sometimes. Somewhere out there someone needs a lryicist. I'm looking for a cowriter. if you want: to e mail me, I'm at Lats36@aol.com.