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Post Info TOPIC: Words from John Mayer about songwriting
SteveHanlon

Date:
Words from John Mayer about songwriting


I have been reading the Pat Pattison book on 'Writing Better Lyrics'. For those that don't know, he teaches at Berkelee school of music.

His book has a lot of interesting things to say about lyric structure and development. But I'm not initially someone attracted to understanding the story meaning of lyrics. I more like the sounds of words and maybe basic shades of meaning and how it all collages into the sounds the music makes.

It just swirls all together and that's mostly how I "like" or "dislike" or song.

This is what John Mayer has said at one point in his career (he was a student at Berkelee) (and this is just a fragment of the article I read)

"I took a lyric writing class. I got a lot out of it, but I thought a lot of it was bull****." Mayer feels that if the art of songwriting is subject to rigid rules of gravity and logic, the emotions are destroyed. "I turned in lyrics to songs that I have on my record and there's so much red pen on them you don't know what to do." But he didn't change a word. "Once you learn the protocol for something it's very difficult to remove it. Then, you start getting into rhyming schemes." He imitates a snooty academician as he mimics, "'I'm sorry John, but your first verse is an AABB and your second verse is an ABAB.'"




I was wrestling around with that Pat Pattison book (and I'm not alluding that it was Pat's class John was referring to - I have no idea what lyrics class he took or with whom).
But I kept feeling like Pat's book, though using incredible lyrics as examples, and indeed, appearing to be quite a story telling lyricist himself (at least in his examples), wasn't really addressing lyrics how I experience lyrics whn I listen to a song.

I'm not against story telling lyrics and I still think it's a great challenge to wrap my head around his way of doing lyrics. AND I'm trying to do it in one of my current songs - this idea of framing a repetitive Chorus with the meaning of the verse preceeding it.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there.

What do you think?

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bradroll

Date:

Steve,

I think JM is a great lyricist. I've been a fan for years now - ever since his first release of 'Inside Wants Out'.

One of my favorite JM songs is 'Comfortable', which actaully is pretty much a story. In it, if you haven't heard it (If you have, you can skip this), JM tells this story of how he misses his old 'comfortable' love - which has been replaced by a new 'love' of which his friends approve more.

My favorite lyrics in the song:

Life of the party/And she swears that she's artsy/But you could distinguish Miles from Coltrane

The whole song is, in my opinion, well-written lyrically. It's conversational in parts and poetic in others. And the music is very complimentary. It's a nice blend of musical interpreation of lyrical content.

I do not consider myself a good lyricist by any means, but when I attempt to write a song - at the forefront is some point, or story, that I strive to either make or tell. Now here's the tricky part. Although I oftentimes have a clear-cut idea of what I want to say, regardless of how it comes out, one of my biggest goals as a lyricist is to be consciously vague. That, to some, makes no sense and possibly makes me a half-rate (or less) lyricist. While I'm OK with that (I hate rules), here's my reasoning.

When writing lyrics, I would venture a guess that most lyricists draw from personal experiences - it's tons easier to write what you know than what you don't but going out on a limb can also make for successful writing. My goal, or approach, is to use my personal experiences, feelings, opinions and such in the lyrics - but express those things in a way that can hold different interpretations. Making a personal song too personal can be good and bad - when I hear a song, I like to be able to interpret and find personal applications. Not all listeners enjoy doing this, or even want to, but I strive to give them that opportunity. Perhaps I missed my mark, but that's not for me to decide.

On the other hand, I do enjoy listening to tunes that are clear-cut and don't require any interpretation - so I try to write like this also. Storytelling is fun - the best is when a great story is paired with a great musical interpretation of that story to create a stellar tune.

The thing I think I like best about songwriting is, for me anyway, it can be whatever I make it. If a listener enjoys hearing what I create - bonus! If something gets lost in the delivery or it's simply a bad tune, I'll probably be the first one to recognize it, but I'll also be very unlikely to change it. I'll just try harder on the next tune to find that right blend of lyrics and music.

So best wishes Steve and I can't wait to hear the new material! Thanks for reading.

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SteveHanlon

Date:

Thanks for that brad!. I didn't know the song. I just downoaded it from iTunes and have been listening to it again and again.

The lyrics are very poignant. Feel very heartfelt. And how he performs the whole tune really touches me.

(Lyrics: John Mayer)

I just remembered, that time at the market
snuck up behind me and jumped on my shopping cart
And rode down, aisle 5
you looked behind you to smile back at me
crashed into a rack full of magazines
they asked us, if we could leave.

Can't remember, what went wrong last September
though i'm sure you'd remind me, if you had to

Our love was, comfortable and
so broken in

I sleep with this new girl i'm still getting used to
my friends all approve, say 'shes gonna be good for you'
they throw me, high fives

She says the bible is all that she reads
and prefers that I not use profanity
your mouth was, so dirty

Life of the party
and she swears that she's artsy
but you could distinguish
Miles from Coltrane

Our love was, comfortable and
so broken in
she's perfect, so flawless
or so they say, say

She thinks I can't see the smile that shes faking
and poses for pictures that aren't being taken
I loved you
grey sweat pants, no makeup, so perfect

Our love was, comfortable and
so broken in
she's perfect, so flawless
I'm not impressed, I want you back.


The best part for me was the whole first verse - so many clear images. And I felt his love for her and their closeness without him saying 'We were so close"

The most disappointing line was the very last. He just didn't need to say it. I wished he'd ended wih 'We were so comfortable'

Man his chords on this tune and melody and the strings....just perfect. I wish I wrote this one.

Thanks for sharing, Brad!


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